Ableton & Audio 4 DJ with my pinky

buzkin · Post by **buzkin** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:49 am

Hello dear Ms.Pinky-forum,

i am running ableton live with pinky vst and a audio DJ4-soundcard.
i got everything working fine - i have routed the timecode to the pinky vst and i routed this track to deck 1 as output.
the rest of the live set is routed to deck 2, so that i can switch with the crossfader of my pioneer djm-400 between the pinky vst and the rest.

but how do i now record what happens on deck one, with the correct crossfader function ?

would really appreciate your help
thanks

monosylabik · Post by **monosylabik** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:46 am

Hey, I replied to your post on the ableton forum, but I'll post it here too.

What mixer are you using? The big problem with recording any DVS output out of a simple dj mixer is that it won't give you separate outputs for what you do on deck A and B after the crossfader, only the mixed output.

If your mixer has a post-fader FX loop (like the Ranes do), you can use the FX send as a direct output for deck A setting it all the way to Wet, while deck B would go out your mixer's main out setting it to Dry, then in Ableton record them separately.

If your mixer doesn't have an FX loop or it's pre-fader, that won't work. If you absolutely need ableton's Main Out to go through your mixer's channel B and Ms Pinky through A, you could consider running a Mono setup. Add a copy of this Sum to Mono rack after Ms Pinky VST's output and another after Live's, before they go into your mixer. Then, on the mixer pan Channel A hard left and Channel B hard right. That way your Mixer Main output L will be Channel A and R will be Channel B, and can be recorded separately, but you lose your Stereo Image. Also, be careful with your monitoring and routing when recording back Live's output like this, it can easily create a feedback loop. On the below pic, you'd send the Mixer's Channel B Live's output instead of a turntable.

The other (simpler) option is not running Ableton's output to your mixer, and just recording one deck of Ms Pinky as a single track, but this would depend on what you want to do. This setup works when you just want to add scratches to a track.

I'm using a Traktor Audio 6 for this diagrams, so the soundcard's Main In (front) is always line and the decks inputs can be switched to phono/line independently. I'm not sure if you can switch the Audio 4's inputs independently, but if you can't and got it working with Asio4All, you can use your Soundblaster in place of the Main In/Out in my soundcard diagrams.

buzkin · Post by **buzkin** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:26 am

thanks this could be very helpful.

i just want to add scratches to my tracks - not to mix everything. i tried the second picture, but the main problem is getting two input-signals in ableton - one to get the signal for pinky vst and one should be the master output of the mixer.

and i have a pioneer djm-400 .

i tried using asio 4 all for setting up the two inputs but it doesnt work - i cant get the audio 4dj's input + line-in input (mixers output).

so should i probably use an additional interface instead of my creative sb x-fi for setting up the two soundcards in asio?

best regards

buzkin · Post by **buzkin** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:11 am

nobody?

monosylabik · Post by **monosylabik** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:11 am

Sorry, I don't have a PC to test Asio4All, but I just came up with an idea. Maybe you could look into is using Maxi-Patch AO instead of Pinky VST, that's what I'm doing currently with my current set-up.

Set Maxi-Patch's audio settings so it uses the Audio 4 for it's I/O, then set Ableton to use the Soundblaster. Do your setup routing, and connect your mixer to the Soundblaster input, and use its output as your main out. I'm not sure if Windows would have issues with using 2 soundcards for different audio apps, and you may have to play around with buffer sizes in both, but if you just can't get Asio4All to work it might be a good idea to look into this.

Mudo · Post by **Mudo** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:41 pm

Why not use internal resampling capabilities of Ableton?

monosylabik · Post by **monosylabik** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:15 pm

Mudo, problem is he needs 2 input pairs, one for the control vinyl and the second for his mixer's audio output, and (I think) the Audio 4 DJ won't allow setting Phono/Line independently for its inputs, it's either both Phono or both Line, so he needs a 2nd soundcard to record his scratching.

Mudo · Post by **Mudo** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:56 pm

Why not use booth in phono and attach a preamp between mixer and 2 channel on audio4dj? Then set a resample channel inside Ableton and record the scratch...

Other way could be use Asio4all (multikernel) with Audio4dj for the turntables and interal soundcard for resampling (crappy solution but useful at last...) as one soundcard (like coreaudio) then select this "new" soundcard (audio4dj+soundblaster &/or internal) and manage its inputs outputs to get the desire setup.

I'm missing something?

-m!

edit: I add the italic/bold text to be more clear.

buzkin · Post by **buzkin** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:31 am

the strange thing is, that asio4all wont let a signal of the timecode-signal thru, so i wont even be able to control ms pinky with asio selected (plus correct setup).
if i select the audio4 dj as audio device in ableton i can control the plugin but if i switch to asio with one turntable as input, it wont work..

any suggestions for setting up asio?

monosylabik · Post by **monosylabik** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:21 am

Mudo's pre-amp solution could work really good if you just can't get both cards working with asio4all and would prefer to use the audio 4 only. Set the audio 4 inputs to line, put the phono pre-amp between the turntable and soundcard, and connect your mixer's out to the audio 4's 2nd in, and use the 2nd out as your main out.

I do recommend looking into replacing Pinky VST with Maxi-Patch AO, it might save you the hassle of using Asio4All and get your rig working the way you want without spending a bit more on the pre-amp.

buzkin · Post by **buzkin** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:14 am

could i use instead of a phono preamp the "M-Audio Fast Track Pro"?

monosylabik · Post by **monosylabik** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:00 am

Problem is phono pre-amps also add an pretty steep EQ curve to the incoming signal called the RIAA curve to compensate for the bass lowering used to cut vinyl, and normal mic/line pre-amps don't have that EQ.

If you already have the Fast Track Pro, you might have better luck setting it up alongside the Audio 6 with Asio4All instead of the SB.

bosonHavoc · Post by **bosonHavoc** » Wed May 15, 2013 7:10 pm

if you have a fast track pro you could use the maxi patch with the native instruments dj 4 interface then run your mixer output into the fast track pro's inputs.. the mixer out should be line level.
then use the fast track with ableton.

i do a similar set up for making instructional videos,
i use ableton with my motu 828mkiii and then run the main out into my focusrite 212 with camtasia.

it works..
not sure i'd perform with that set up though but it will get you buy
untill you get an interface with more i/o