Midi out signal

For topics related to using MsPinky inside the Max/MSP graphical programming environment
Zargak
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Joined:Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:43 am

Post by Zargak » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:05 am

dlpinkstah wrote: Good. So can you tell me what exact type of MIDI information resolume needs in order to scratch video clips? Does it need CC's? Pitch-bend?
Or is there a special SysEx message format for Resolume?
Sure thing, I'll beta test for you too if you want? I have torque and some technics waiting right here, but no software. :wink: . . . yet!

Resolume will accept OSC, it seems pretty well implamented too, effects parameters audio, clip triggering etc. I guess this makes a big difference to pinky and Res 3 compatability, I'm afraid I don't know osc too well, just that it's used in my monome, but even then that's converted to midi. However I would still use midi for my audio effects in FL and clip scratching in Resolume through choice unless osc is vastly more responcive. .

On the midi front everything in Resolume can be controlled by midi, including clip speed and playback position all are normal cc's, It also has midi clock. though there's no hi res midi support as yet, only standard 7 bit.

Off topic. Resolume are very keen on you guy's, especially Bart, it wouldn't hurt you to drop them a hello even just on their forum, it would be great to see your apps supporting each other.I think their concearn with midi is not so much about video responciveness, more how good the audio would sound when scratched via midi, obviously it will sound bad and thats the draw back with midi (well not for me though because I use FL and Dekadance) To be honnest I don't think many people take Resolumes audio cabability too seriously. they leave that side of things to Abelton Live or FL etc

Other than that if there's any way I can help further let me know.

EDD, their osc is outlined in detail here: http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfx7c ... 6bm5f9#osc
Mudo
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Post by Mudo » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:17 am

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Maybe you start to undertand how the people are leaving midi to other protocols and of course...

What Kind of midi? Are you sure cc is the best solution?
Why not 10 bit sysex?

Please focus your efforts on this important thing... later all of us we could play MS. Pinky vinyl with other appz altogether...

Don't want to run so fasterrrrrrrrr...

xD

The protocol is the most important now (or how to implement different midi/osc/??? messages)


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Mudo means mute person.


Researching new interface paradigms
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Zargak
Posts:15
Joined:Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:43 am

Post by Zargak » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:55 pm

We have to use something to send this midi to, to test it though.

Anyway good new's, I am getting absolutely amaizing results scratching clips via midi, the precision is astounding! I'm sending automaion as standard midi, normal midi CC's (0 -127) and it's really really good! as smooth or fast as you like also. (Clip length seems to be the most important factor) the shorter the clips the the more densly the midi is positioned throughout the clip. (as I guessed before)

However The benefit's of open OSC will be :

1 longer clips will be able to be scratched (which seems a bit pointles to me) I can't see why anyone would wan't to scratch a clip longer than 5 seconds anyway.

2 The precision necissary to effectivly scratch the sound track, Again I would do this with an app specifically designed for audio scratching, something like Dekadance, Torque etc or even pinky plugo running in as a VST in Resolume it'self.

One thing I can tell you is that Audio in resulume is Shyte, it has no forward backward audio clip scrubbing cabability, it's jumpy and horrible! but Visually couldn't be better.
Mudo
Posts:340
Joined:Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:22 pm
Location:...Barcelona...

Post by Mudo » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:24 pm

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I want to scratch larger than 5 seconds clips and I need more resolution because I need to use it in the same manner as I use for music.

I want to do the same like dvdj and I need more resolution for ttm tracking (like aaron faulstich)

I think we need to upgrade the send info but I'm not sure to which kind of message.

My macbook's harddisk is dead...

:(

I will back...

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Mudo means mute person.


Researching new interface paradigms
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Zargak
Posts:15
Joined:Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:43 am

Post by Zargak » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:41 am

Can we have both please?

This way we can still keep pinky compatable with the majority of apps wich still utilse midi like most Daw's and vst's.

Btw how is your windows version coming along?
Mudo
Posts:340
Joined:Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:22 pm
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Post by Mudo » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:45 am

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I'm in your mood but sysex is still midi. I want midi too (for downgrade compatibility) but I want high resolution messages.


About windows version... I'm only a user like you. If you find some maxmsp Pc based programmer you will have it in a few clicks.

I work with boot platforms and maybe I will start to look at Linux (harddisk die has some blame on it)

My efforts are focused into osx, I'm sorry.

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Mudo means mute person.


Researching new interface paradigms
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Zargak
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Post by Zargak » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:14 am

That's cool.

Just out of interest, what are you going to send hi res midi too? I only know of one app that supports it and that's Arkaos, are there others?

It seem's there is no standard protocol for 14 but midi so most times any support that is given is normallyonly for a specific controller, like a BCR or other simular, etc

Just wondering.
Mudo
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Post by Mudo » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:17 pm

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It is necessary for scratching analisys the next is the crossfader.

Another appz which maybe support it will be ableton.

Check the new stanton scs.1d and numark/rane Ns7 to understand why is important protocol.

These solutions are talking about ownself closed solutions and we are talking about turntable language freedom.

Do you understand the chess play that we are playing my friend?

;)

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Mudo
Posts:340
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Post by Mudo » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:54 pm

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Scott could you check this one and said me what do you think about it?
http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/live- ... _Midi_Demo

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Mudo
Posts:340
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Post by Mudo » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:45 pm

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Some noise and test at Vidvox Forum:
http://www.vidvox.com/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... 5165#15165

Zargak could you recopilate your web noising at resolume forums, please?

Thanks!

;)

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adrock42
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Joined:Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:09 pm

Post by adrock42 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:35 pm

question: is there any way to glean the track duration, or somehow send the duration out thru osc or midi?
adrock42
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Joined:Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:09 pm

also....

Post by adrock42 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:50 pm

some more vdmx noise
http://www.vidvox.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3318

i took a look at resolume after this post -> http://www.resolume.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4249

but didn't feel like figuring it all out, so at least send em the link.

VDMX doesnt like osc values if they aren't between 0 and 1 so a lot of the math is meant to work with that.
Mudo
Posts:340
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Post by Mudo » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:01 pm

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Adrock you are the first in class... I only found some references about midi/osc to AV in a pdf name AVcut.pdf and it is around supercollider.

http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/use ... /avcut.pdf

take a look and share improvments please.

:)

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Researching new interface paradigms
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adrock42
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Post by adrock42 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:49 am

Seems like a good way to make this all cross platform for the Windows crowd on resolume. Quartz Composer is OSX only. Of course a MaxMSP programmer could do that as well, but it would not act like a plug-in for vdmx. This qc patch can theoretically work with any application that takes OSC over a network path.

Either way I haven't seen much of a difference in computer performance or latency between pluggin in to VDMX and using OSC. The basic ideas:

OSC between 0 & 1 = -128+Pinky Signal/(MediaTime*86.1328125)
the -128 is an offset to wait for pinky to start.

you have to sample and hold the Pinky signal because it drops out some times, so if it drops to zero you have to take the last signal. The logic is like:
if(Pinky Signal == 0){
grab the last signal and send that
}

to get the dot to spin around in a circle you have to do something like this:
x = (-1*cos(Pinky Signal*4))/(B+(A*C))
y = (sin(Pinky Signal*4))/(B+(A*C)

Where:
A = Final OSC between 0 & 1
B = Inner Diameter of the "Record"
C = Outter Diameter of the "Record" - B

but.... Having the text all render out and the viz of the spinning record most defiantly hits the computer performance.

I got an echo AudioFire2 and the spdif never worked right, so I had to return it and I'm back on my iMic 8p until the new one arrives.
Mudo
Posts:340
Joined:Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:22 pm
Location:...Barcelona...

Post by Mudo » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:40 am

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Really cool work!

:)


What about OSC refresh rate?

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Researching new interface paradigms
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